I think the Human rights organisation should change their name to ‘Support terrorist rights organisation’. Afzal guru, the person behind Dec 2001 parliament attacks is sentenced to death. And immediately a hue and cry by these people. I sincerely wish President doesnt pardon these people of the crime. And they should not delay these hanging procedure any further.
on 28 Sep 2006 at 2:44 pm # Pras
He should not be hanged..
We should send him in outer space in GSLV..
on 28 Sep 2006 at 2:44 pm # Pras
He should not be hanged..
We should send him to outer space in GSLV..
on 28 Sep 2006 at 3:20 pm # soliloquist
The solution is not in hanging Afzal… it is in finding out what made him commit such a crime.. what is the motivation…I dont belive the crap about religious war that the terrorists give… no man can kill for his god… And the issue of capital punishemnt is yet another story…. Hanging him wont stop bombs from going off, would it???
on 28 Sep 2006 at 3:24 pm # F e r r a r i
soliloquist,
If you hang him, it sends out a strong signal on our terror policy. For that matter keeping him in jail will solve the problem? Anyways bomb blasts keep happening. Why not release all the arrested terrorists.
on 28 Sep 2006 at 4:21 pm # :-) smiley
ya…. no more of second thoughts … the human rights commission should stay away from such affairs… these terrorists are ought to be punished…kalam sir… kaapathadhinga…
on 28 Sep 2006 at 5:11 pm # soliloquist
You miss my point… this is a social issue… what do you as a person gain by hanging this fellow??? is your life going to be safer?? can you board the trains and planes with less fear than you already have?? look what the “war on terror” has done… it couldnt of sent a stronger message, but the message backfired… terrorists in the last few decades just wanted attention to their cause… their damage to life was lesser than to property… now they have become merciless… all because the root cause has been ignored.. people are happy to see one terrorist hanged. it doesnt create fear among the rest. it makes him a martyr… 100s crop up for every drop of blood he sheds…However hard the governements of the world tighten their security, the terrorists circumvent and find a way to kill…. To commit murder takes a great amount of emotional pushing… to commit mass murder, that too of innocents, to mastermind it, fully knowing you shall be caught and made to pay, takes more than a mercernaries mentality….
If a man is of potential threat to the society if let loose, imprison him.
Make your prisons of iron walls…. Hold him.. for life, if you want. But you are no different from the terrorist, if you crave an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.
And hanging that guy isnt going to make anyone of us more patriotic than we are, nor more socially conscious than we already are. Lets not resort to medieval stoning of witches…
on 28 Sep 2006 at 5:15 pm # soliloquist
sorry for the long comment… u hav a big following… couldnt bear too see too many people going “Kill ‘em”, “Hang ‘im”… way too grouse and inane…
on 28 Sep 2006 at 5:24 pm # F e r r a r i
soliloquist,
We are not talking about prisoners of war here. We are talking about butchers who masterminded killing innocent people. And the judicial system has taken this decision after 4 long years.
Now where did patriotism come into the picture? Did I miss something?
And feel free to disagree! Am all ears and eyes!
on 28 Sep 2006 at 5:42 pm # Jacky
They should have more gruesome death penalties in law for criminals who mastermind mass murder. Hanging someone must be least painful option. The idea is to send a strong message to all the wannabe terrorists. If proven guilty then you’re finished.
on 28 Sep 2006 at 6:05 pm # soliloquist
Neither did i talk of PoW s … Yes… butchers… butchers who seem to multiply the more you butcher them… so obviously your way of “teaching them a lesson” isnt solving the problem…
These people know they are risking their lives. Whats the use of sentencing a wannabe human bomb to death?
They run a holy war. They will reach God, if they die for its cause, and even if they kill for its cause. A lot goes in, for any human to reach this mental state, to become a cold unfeeling mass murderer.
Brute force wont solve the problem. Hanging a criminal in case of corruption, dowry deaths,abuses against women, murder for money or any other motive will send a strong message and instill fear in could-be-criminals. But terrorists are fully aware of the risk they run, and have given up the fear of death.
People of the world should view terrorism anywhere as terrorism, not only in their own countries.
As for patriotism, was jus guessin the possible reason for all this fist thumping
on 28 Sep 2006 at 6:57 pm # Bindu
Somehow, I dont like the concept of hanging. I would prefer if the guy is sentenced to life imprisonment in a separate cell. The best punishment one can give to a man is loneliness and not a 10 minute pain.
on 28 Sep 2006 at 7:08 pm # Arun
just back from a trip along srinagar..
spoke to many a military chaps and people.
looks like this court/case/hanging & all forgotten story there..its of only “find & destroy” going .
Root cause analysis:
India - Kashmir is mine.
Pakistan - no no..its mine.
Terrorists - You kill, I Kill..
Military - wishing u the same!!
Kashmiris - we are not terrorists..buttt..hmmm..no comments!!..
on 28 Sep 2006 at 9:54 pm # Srivathsan
I think we should go for spot execution.. delaying the trial itself for such a long time is a crime by itself
on 28 Sep 2006 at 10:48 pm # Anonymous
God bless you all.
But anyway, how about going back to your work?
on 28 Sep 2006 at 11:56 pm # Prasanna
I don’t agree.The whole investigation into the Parliament attack was shoddy.Main culprits have managed to escape.The ones that have been held guilty look like mere scape goats.Don’t believe in everything government says.And Afzal was not even represented by a lawyer for a major portion of the trial
on 29 Sep 2006 at 12:08 am # nandhu
the human rights organisations are not for terrorism but against death penalty. there is no reason to believe death penalty is good. why does the state need to hang people to get rid of crime in society? for centuries crime has been dealt with an iron hand in several countries. but are they untouched by crime? life imprisonment for life instead for 7-14 yrs is one answer. there are several countries that have scrapped death penalty and do well. we culd choose the same path.
on 29 Sep 2006 at 1:19 am # TamilCritic
http://www.silly-nu-oru-goodhal.info
Interesting site.
on 29 Sep 2006 at 8:30 am # soliloquist
Guess I am not alone
@ Ferrari: Alright its your own blog, and you are free to express yourself.. but when you have a large audience, your responsibility increases, cant afford to be judgemental
on 29 Sep 2006 at 10:11 am # F e r r a r i
Ok. I didnt say anything anti national, or against the law. So there is no question of judgemental or misleading the people or whatever. Having said that, I think I decide what I want to write. As simple as that. Judgemental or not, doesnt matter!
And going by the argument, that these butchers should not be hanged as that will not solve the purpose, will putting them in jail solve the purpose? The terrorist attacks, and new terrorists arising will stop if they are jailed? So whats the next argument? Dont jail them?
And will it stop here? You people say terrorists anyways will circumvent the security measure etc. So why we need a police or army? Dismantle that too?
on 29 Sep 2006 at 10:30 am # Shankar
Keeping the terrorist in jail is not a good option. What if they escape somehow? Or what if their supporters outside hijack a plan and ask that these terrorists be released(like it happened in case of Indian airlines plane hijacked to Afganisthan). Better eliminate them, the world will be a better place without these terrorists…
on 29 Sep 2006 at 10:51 am # soliloquist
We have two issues in hand. 1.Capital Punishment. 2. Terrorism.
As for the situation in hand, capital punishment is highly questionable, as the authencity of the trial is very hazy. The accused himself has refused to appeal to the Prez, sayin it would only mean that he accepts his guilt and pleads for mercy.
Sending an innocent to the guillotine will only stoke communal sentiments and inflict a new sense of injustice. There is strong opposition even amongst the neutral ones in JnK for this already.
2.Terrorism:
Needs more in depth and wide-spread counter measures (not necessarily of the iron hand), than what is available now. I am not against jailing terrorists, infact life imprisonment is a more viable option. We shouldnt forget that Violence had never cured violence.
Yes, it is your blog, and you are free to write anything, pass your own judgements sitting on an easy chair flipping through the front page news, sipping hot coffee.
And for shankar : how many terrorists will u eliminate??? what if you and i become terrorists tomorrow, by some unforseen unfortunate twist of fate? would we like to be eliminated??? We are not playing a video game here. Attack the issue, not the players…. War against terrorism shouldnt be fought with guns and bombs, alone.
on 29 Sep 2006 at 11:01 am # F e r r a r i
soliloquist,
Ok. Where has peace cured violence, tell me?
And I think whether I sit on an easy chair or a folding chair, drink coffee or whiskey is immaterial and is something personal. I am not answerable to you or anyone for that matter. I dont find it any different than holding a candle when a butcher is hanged.
If you dont agree with my views, so be it. You dont need to advise me on what I should write or what I should be doing! Thank you very much!
on 29 Sep 2006 at 11:21 am # soliloquist
Guess your ears and eyes have had their fill… Didnt mean to offend… Was just trying to say, its not a black and white issue…to say yes its black, no its white. You dont even know for sure, if he is the butcher or not. Or if there have been other butchers, making this one a scapegoat. My only question is, will your sense of social standing remain the same, when the guy about to be hanged was someone you knew? Why are people flowing into that fellows house to give comfort to his family?? Are they all terrorism supporting human rights activists?
anyways, the thanks are returned and are not welcome
Peace has cured violence, just revert back to 1947, and the other 9/11. (though violence did show its ugly head again, due the now familiar mistaken sense of injustice)… Ahimsa may not be very relevant now. But violence will never be. and never has.
on 29 Sep 2006 at 11:37 am # Arun
@soliloquist..
Your idea on attacking the issues looks neat..infact this is the idea i used to get from my PMs..and it works well.
Now lets plan how we could implement this idea out there in north..
should we call ‘them’ and talk in mike..?
or should we communicate through media..?
or shall we giveup and comeback? why would we need if they thmeselves dont want us to be there..
just give some ideas on how we could attack the issues.. (assuming u know the issues)
on 29 Sep 2006 at 12:43 pm # soliloquist
Its not an issue of “us” and “them”. Anyone amongst us can become “them” given the circumstances.
I really dont see why the crux of the issue is so badly obliterated by short term solutions.The question is why such a circumstance is created. Why do people have to take to arms, to solve issues. If its a law and order issue, creating sustained mayhem, its fine to use force. But these are sporadic incidents of gruesome violence, well planned and executed.
There is only one issue that needs to be addressed. The root of terrorism. What makes an otherwise good man kill so many? The answers are many and all of them need consideration. It is not one isolated killer that we are fighting against. Its a movement. A movement that flourishes more when we destroy it more. Please contradict me on things that i say, and not resort to rhetorics like “evanga la ellam nadu veetla vechu pooja panna solriya?”… These rhetorics may prove that I have lost the argument, but my questions and points still remain unattended to.
As an after thought, PMs gyan isnt always impractical… Would know if one becomes a PM.
http://www.hindu.com/2006/09/28/stories/2006092802241000.htm
on 29 Sep 2006 at 1:17 pm # Arun
agreed soliloquist..
many of ‘us’ were ‘them’ only before 1947..
for more than 150yrs..dont consider school text books..they only talk abt 1947 and Gandhiji..they hide the rest.
inline with my previous post on this subject..
u said u have an idea on “attacking the issues”..do u know how to implement that on this particular case or not?
on 29 Sep 2006 at 1:42 pm # soliloquist
I never said i have the solution, factory made.. come and buy it from me , Rs 10 per piece. What am trying to say, is the focus must shift elsewhere..It s no petty criminal that we are dealing with here. Its not just many of “us” were “them” once upon a time.. Its any of “us” could become “them” anytime. Its more a social issue than a security issue. If I throw a stone at my neighbor’s car window when no one is watching just because his kids let the stereo blare at full volume at night, I
become a terrorist at that moment.
“Ivana ellam nikka vechi sudanum” nu solrathuku he is no eve-teaser, or serial killer, nor is he General Dwyer who fired on the people at the Jalianwala bagh. The subhash chandra boses and the bhagat singh’s shouldnt be ignored.. But the masses never followed them… The crowd went behind Gandhi.. Anyways, thats a deviation..
What if this guy is hung, and the real mastermind sits safe somewhere watching the news on TV??? Is it going to send your “warning message” to all the Osamas of the world??? Are they going to shiver in their shoes just cos one guy is caught and hung??? So what other beneifit do you gain in executing this fellow??? Lets make one thing clear. I am not pro terrorist, nor am I Afzal Guru’s lawyer. I just find the whole thing futile and purpose less.
on 29 Sep 2006 at 2:07 pm # Arun
“I never said i have the solution”
“I just find the whole thing futile and
purpose less”
I am out of this discussion..
Thank You!
on 29 Sep 2006 at 2:30 pm # soliloquist
Happy to make you prove “your point” if any.
Just a clarification:
solution : “to terrorism”
whole thing : “hanging the terrorist”.
If you still feel, the smiley carries the sarcasm intented, then thank you for staying so long
on 29 Sep 2006 at 2:45 pm # Arun
i dont know..i just type the usual “:,-,)” smiley characters..but the site converts it as sarcastic ones.. lol..
no sarcasm soliloquist!
on 30 Sep 2006 at 5:51 am # Bajju
I guess the terrorists keep finding one way or other. But the security whether its CBI or FBI could not catch up with them (though they do in some cases like tracking the london liquid bomb plot).
So I guess one of the best solution would be to have the CBI/FBI host some kind of websites where people could give their thought on the security holes. Ofcourse it should be a secured website and only allows to post blah blah blah which should be taken care.
But the idea is that there would be millions of good brains thinking against a few terrorist brains. Now it would be something like a open source code system where people can outcast these terrorist by thinking smart and giving all kind of ways a terrorist could attack innocent people whether its road/rail/air. The whole system would be good based on how they design the webpage. Its not a complain box. Its just a hint for the govt to think about something they might have missed !
The govt then could make sure which one of those posting remain to be a real threat and atleast could think about possible actions.
BUT IF AT ALL THEY GET TERRORISTs AND IF PROVED JUST KILL THEM SO THAT THEY WONT GO BACK AND KILL SOME INNOCENT PEOPLE AS IT HAPPENED IN CASE OF THE INDIAN AIRLINE FLIGHT IN NEPAL.
on 30 Sep 2006 at 11:48 am # Rohini
@soliloquist
I agree that the base cause of terrorism should be addressed. But being a terrorist does not give him special rights to kill innocent people pre-planned and get away with it. When people receive death sentence for spur of the moment murders and murders with a cause, why should well-executed killings by terrorists be pardoned. It is after all a murder with a cause.
If terrorists can show their opposition without causing damage to lives( even properties can pardoned) that is fine. But when they don’t have qualms about killing anyone, anyone would feel safe about those people being hanged or put in jail. How will you feel if one of your family members is killed. Will you still feel sorry for the terrorists? How about the lives of jawans and other military personnel losing their lives everyday guarding the country, when we can sit here and coolly comment what is the need to get them executed?
Life imprisonment of a dangerous terrorist will only lead to complications. Hijacks and kidnappings to get the terrorists released have become very common. Why should the Govt. invite more trouble. A terrorist in a jail is more of an icon for the group. If he is dead, his memory soon passes away from people’s minds.
Remember reading this somewhere. Godse sent a mail to Rajaji(the Viceroy then) asking for pardon from death sentence saying that if Gandhiji was alive he would not have wanted me being hanged. Rajaji replied “Ofcourse, if Gandhiji was alive we would not hang you”
on 30 Sep 2006 at 3:50 pm # Jeevan
If we hang him, his life will gone in few seconds and he will not realize the pain, the punishment should be sevier, Not like taking life.
on 01 Oct 2006 at 4:43 am # Ramanathan V
I see some arguments by some person here against captital punishment for terrorism. I don’t understand what logic is there when a person goes about killing people who have no done harm to him. It is a planned and executed action by an adult. If society needs to consider “root causes” for this, then of course you should look at root cause for every crime a man commits and just pardon him. It is stupid to ask how many terrorists you will eliminate? Whether the state can eliminate all of them are not, they have to do what they have to do atleast minimize it. If you catch a thief, you don’t say how many can I catch, so let me let this one free.
on 04 Oct 2006 at 10:11 am # Cacaphonix
hmm…lemme quote soliloquist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We have two issues in hand. 1.Capital Punishment. 2. Terrorism.
As for the situation in hand, capital punishment is highly questionable, as the authencity of the trial is very hazy. The accused himself has refused to appeal to the Prez, sayin it would only mean that he accepts his guilt and pleads for mercy.
Sending an innocent to the guillotine will only stoke communal sentiments and inflict a new sense of injustice. There is strong opposition even amongst the neutral ones in JnK for this already.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Why is capital punishment is discussed in high breath whenever (a very rare occurrence though, in India) a terrorist is sentenced to death? why not this so called “intellectual discussion for abolishion” is done in such a high breath when a social criminal (a man who killed all the three or ‘n’ wives) who is also sentenced so? oh..sorry! I should not question that and deviate.
>>>>>>>
As for the situation in hand, capital punishment is highly questionable, as the authencity of the trial is very hazy.
>>>>>>>
Does this statement pertain to this parliament case or a generic statement on any death sentence trial? I presume this statement pertains to only this case. So let me ask some questions here. What is so haze about the trial? Just because the convict has denied presidential pardon one cannot question the trial and verdict. Btw only thru media report/interview but via emotional channel thru his wife he is pursuing the pardon path. If we question the punishment for a convict vis-a-vis convicts claim to innocence then all trials and sentences are “hazy”, objectionable, questionable.
First of all we need to understand one thing here the main reason for a trial and a sentence is NOT to provide a social problem. That is a side-effect. Social problems have to be addressed by the society the place of the problem, and not the courts which is there to say whether an individual/establishment has gone right or wrong and give punishments accordingly. So our perception on a court trial is wrong here and not the punishment per se.
Abolishion of capital punishment — the main argument here given is what if the trial was conducted wrong one cannot bring a life back. OK, let me ask one question here what if we give “so called” strictest life imprisonment and an accused loses all his life due to the life imprisonment and only after that everyone comes to know about his innocence, can the same court bring back all his loss? We see fatal accidents does it mean that those who die in fatal accidents are not innocents? Even after infinite delays and hearings that consume eons for a trial to complete, if one is getting death sentence “most likely” that person is real accused. if then too it is not so, in “a few cases”, then it ought has to be equated to a killing of an innocent in an accident. skewing it and taking that into emotionally charged turn and citing that as reason for justifying further terrorism/violence and killing is a mis-placed judgment. just because i cut my finger with the sharp-knife while cutting vegetable i should not blame the sharpness of the knife (or for that matter the knife itself) rather it is i who is to be blamed. it is we, and more importantly the media and sundry organisations that claim to be interested in “human life”, that create the attention/hype that “terrorists in the last few decades just wanted to their cause…”. Don’t blame the sentence here. Indian judician system, as its supreme court has mentioned in umpteen number of times, has very very sparingly sentenced people to death in the finality (many a times higher courts have reduced the death sentence should they have an iota of doubt in the proof of the crime).
Let me also show the state of the so called life imprisonment. Madhani/Afsal if given life imprisonment, with their power & contacts run their terror mill with cool and ease, and ofcourse a bonus of chicken-twice-a-week, from this so-called “best punishment one can give to a man is loneliness” turns out to be the best punishment a society can give to itself for breeding such anti-socials — give room for the same anti-social to further bleed the society. Such is our prison (to put it in american way “dept of corrections”) nowadays every terrorist mastermind would love to be in prison to execute their plan, if one doesn’t get a chance to flee to dubai/karachi.
However i’m not for “hanging” or other brutal ways for executing the death sentence rather a more pruned way need to be adopted.
on 04 Oct 2006 at 10:18 am # Cacaphonix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Peace has cured violence, just revert back to 1947
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
what??! What was violent in 1947 that the peace has cured it? What Gandhiji adopted was primarily a non-violent way of protest the occupancy.
Btw people give twists and turns to Gandhiji’s ahimsa to their whims and fancies. The same Gandhiji has asked people to kill a badly wounded goat unable to see its suffering, didn’t he? Terrorists are like that — they are cancer we need to eliminate cancerous cells otherwise we will die. Just because elimination of cancereous cells doesn’t guarentee that cancer will not revive itself, i should not be thinking like a stupid that “hence there is no worth is eliminating this set of cancerous cells”. That is suicide, a stupidity indeed.
Btw suicidial attempt is also a crime so those so called activists who indirectly lobby for terrorist should be sentenced…nay not death but their wishing life imprisonment
@Ferro,
Sorry to use your blog for such a big big post. i hope you would pardon me or will you hang me to death?